Host: Isaline Muelhauser
Guest: Ebere Jonathan
Ebere Jonathan is a Medical Technologist who found love in the Digital Marketing space. She got into Tech SEO through Chima Mmeje's FCDC Initiative and worked as a Contract SEO Specialist with The Gray Dot Company. She spends most of her time auditing and analysing websites for opportunities to improve their performance. When she's not working, Ebere spends her time reading or getting updates and making friends on social media.
She discusses how to build a connected and inclusive SEO remote workforce. The issue of mental health and inclusiveness in the workplace has gained significant awareness in recent years. However, in today's world of remote working, how can we extend this knowledge to our remote workers from diverse backgrounds? In this episode, Ebere shares her positive and negative experiences working remotely, how companies have made her feel included and how other companies can help make their remote team feel a sense of belonging. We also discover what inspires Ebere and empowers her to be the brilliant woman she is today.
You can connect with Ebere through her LinkedIn and Twitter/X.
Episode Transcript
Isaline: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the WTSPodcast. We are on a mission to amplify women's voices in the SEO industry.
Today's podcast is a must-listen for any company employing remote workers to create an inclusive workspace where people can thrive. I'm Isaline, and I'm your host for today's episode. Today, we welcome Ebere Jonathan. Hi. Hello.
Ebere: Hi, Isaline. It's so nice to join you today.
Isaline: Thank you for being here. We are having a very unusual podcast recording, and that's actually part of the fun. I'm really happy that you are here.
Ebere: Thank you.
Isaline: You are a medical technologist and you fell in love with digital marketing. You got into tech SEO through the FCDC initiative, and today, you work as an SEO consultant. Some of your favorite tasks, you said, were auditing and analyzing websites. When we prepared this interview, you mentioned that you wanted to share your experience as a remote worker to help companies create a thriving, inclusive environment for a connected workforce. Tell me a bit more about your experience as a remote worker.
Ebere: I can talk about the positive or the negative experience.
Isaline: Let's start with the negative so we know from the start what we should not do.
Ebere: Okay. From the negative experience, I worked with an agency as a copywriter, and I felt so disconnected with the company because there was no structure, there was nothing in place. No company culture in place to feel connected remotely. Especially when you're working remotely. Like, you get your task via chats, WhatsApp chats. And then, you submit the task on WhatsApp chats. And so, you wake up every day to check your chats to see the task you have for the day, not even for the week. And then, once it's completed, you hold on for a response via WhatsApp chats. You have to see the trauma I had with opening WhatsApp. I still feel that trauma. Anytime I had anything to do with copywriting or copies. Because the agency made me fall in love? No. Fell out of love for copywriting. I fell out of love.
However, I enjoyed the positive side of working remotely. When I work with an awesome agency, a great company, working with them was awesome. From the first day, I felt connected, even when they are very far away. Every member of the team is kind of far away, but we felt connected because there was a culture, a work culture, to make people feel included. You don't necessarily need to have an office to have an office culture. You can still have an office culture without an office. They simply built that from the onboarding session. They made sure everything was clear for me. What I am expected to do, it's clear. They made me feel welcomed, like open their arms, "If you need anything, please reach out to me," reach out or reach out to this person or reach out to the other person. And then, there's a Slack channel that made me feel welcomed.
And then, people shared their daily life. Like their pets, their family, their kids in the Slack channel. They kind of made you feel like you know this person, you know this person beyond the company logo, you know this person more than just work. And then, there's some video conference meetings to update you on task. You don't really need to wake up and open WhatsApp to know the task you're supposed to do. There's a video conference, weekly updates; "Okay. This is what you're supposed to do this week," or "This is the project you should work on." We all talk about it. It makes you feel like you belong to the company. Your idea matters, too. Not just sending you a message, "Okay. Deliver this, mail this out," and that's it.
Isaline: I can see how this mix of private and professional life with WhatsApp seems so not comfortable. Like, you are afraid of touching your phone because you don't know what's going to happen.
Ebere: Yeah, actually.
Isaline: And so, you would say the things that were different was a mix of channels that were appropriately professional, and also structure where you had more planning. Was there something else that made you feel all these people are like, "We are a team"? What else?
Ebere: Yeah. Aside from the channels, the socials, the communication. The communication because at first, I felt like how will I be perceived considering the vast cultural difference, the location difference. But, the way they communicated with me through different channels made me feel like I belonged here, despite the difference in location, or culture, or whatever.
Isaline: What, like from your side, when you know that your team is away, is there something you can do as a remote worker to make things a little bit easier?
Ebere: Yeah. For me, when you know that you have different teams in different places and in different time zones, as a remote worker, it's up to you to check out, "Okay, what time zones are more people on?" I try to join meetings despite the time zone. You have to try to wake up on time if the time zone is earlier or go a bit late to be with them. Then I try to message them. I try to send them private messages when I join, or like, "Hello," introduce myself, I am this. Try to crack one or two jokes, or say something about where I am from. So, it also makes them feel connected to you, too. Because it takes two to tango. It's a two-way thing. It's not just the company. You too, as the employee, have to do something to make them feel like you are part of them.
Isaline: For a manager, someone who has the manager role, what would be your main advice? Like, the dos and the don'ts of managing a team of remote workers.
Ebere: I think it's more of the dos. Without sounding repetitive, I would like to mention that communication is a priority when you're managing a remote team. It's not the same as where you're working on sites. You're able to read your manager's body language. Know when, "Oh, I don't think I'm getting it right with this body language he's giving off." But, when you are far away, you can't see all of those things. Most things are via emails or stuff. But, when you are communicating often, you're able to know, okay, ask questions. "Is this working? Is this not working?" So, as a manager, create a communication culture that makes things clear and makes your team feel heard and included.
When I was working in Gray Dot, it is not a very big company. So, I had the freedom to reach out directly to everyone and ask questions whenever I needed to. So, I feel one of the priorities is communication. Create a plan of communicating maybe weekly with all your team and give everybody the opportunity to talk. I know some people, they don't really like to talk or comment. But, when you have that structured out, you give, "Okay, next week you are leading the meeting. You're going to tell us something about this topic. You're going to tell us something about what you worked on." It draws them out and makes them communicate, too. So that you know how they are feeling about tasks and stuff.
Isaline: I hear. It's about asking questions and clarifying maybe more than when we see the person. Managing expectations about the meetings, what are you supposed to tell us, and what do you have to do during that meetings because it's difficult when you don't know a team, to know what you're supposed to do, and what you're supposed to say.
Ebere: Yeah. So that's why I feel like this communication should start early enough. It should start early enough from the onboarding session. That's when you should start building this communication culture. That is when they will feel like they are welcome. Explain everything. Are they on probation period? What are you expecting from them? Do you want them to be more of a team player? Do you want them to relax and learn more about the company? Communicate things and be transparent on what you need them to do. Because there is this feel of when you join a company, you want to impress them immediately. And then, when you're not even working on sites, when they are seeing you to see that you are impressing. So, nobody even knows that you're working yourself up, trying to impress. Impressing them, how?
But, if there's a clear communication, "This is what we expect you to do within three months. We expect you to learn about us. We expect you to come up with a winning strategy for us to complete this project. We expect it --" So, the person knows, "Okay, this is what I'm expected to do." It's easier for them to communicate back from day one. It's easier for them to communicate. So, I feel like starting this from the first day the person comes, build a communication culture. Before then, there are other things I think we should also do aside the communication. But, I want to know if you have more questions or thoughts on this.
Isaline: I wondered, the thing you said about when you start, you want to impress your new team and your new boss. That's so true. And, you want to show that you're friendly. But, how do you do that remotely? How do you show your motivation to do your work when they don't see how excited you are to actually do the things?
Ebere: Exactly. That is the point. That is the point. I've worked remotely over the years, and I've seen that when I get a new job, I'm like, "Oh, I want to show that I can do this job." But, nobody is seeing me because I spent some days trying to learn about their past projects, what they have worked on, I'm trying to read up, dig up, look at their clients, but nobody is seeing all of this. So, after one week or two weeks, "I don't think this girl is really doing anything, is she?" Because nobody's seeing me. But, if there are specific tasks I'm expected to complete. So, even when I am doing all of those digging, I'm still focusing on this and communicating back on that from the one. So, you know I'm doing something.
Isaline: I hear you. There is an intentional effort from you to communicate that enthusiasm with words. But, it's still seems difficult, like a bunch of emojis. Oh, what do you do?
Ebere: Yeah. Which works. Like a bunch of emojis that in meetings, maybe if a company has a weekly meeting to communicate and get to know what things are doing. That's when I get to shoot them with videos, with hands, with eyes, with mouth, and they get to see the enthusiasm. But, in the end, there is no such thing. You don't even know, "What am I expected to do?" You don't even know, at the meeting, you're just going to be looking at them like this. Not sure what to say because you're not clear on what you're expected to say.
Isaline: Sometimes, when I started in a company, I used to bake cookies and brownies to make friends inside the company if you don't know what to say. But, as a remote worker, what do you do? You can't send your cookies away across an ocean.
Ebere: Yeah. So, what I normally do sometimes just to sneak into their DM and say, "Hello, I'm Ebera from Nigeria. I joined the team," I love this. I don't like this. Like, just kind of start the conversation. Sometimes, I offer like, "Can we have a video chat?" When they agree, like talk, where are you from, and all of those things. So, when we interact, it's to give you that feeling
Isaline: That sounds awesome. But also, a lot of effort for someone, in case, who's introverted and a bit afraid of talking. Like, you can't, I mean, you must not hide. You must literally go there. You can't just hide behind your cookies, right?
Ebere: Yeah. So, that's why I feel like the companies should take it up, understand that this person is just new into the company, remove struggling, trying to impress, and all of those things. And then, take it up to arrange for ways to make them feel welcomed, understood, included, and belonged.
Isaline: When you prepared the interview, you also mentioned the issue of mental health. How is it to manage stress and expectations? You said previously, that you try to accommodate the time zone. If this is not a time zone, for instance, how do you connect? What did you do to manage everything and deliver the work that had to be delivered?
Ebere: Well, that's discipline. If you're working remotely, you have to have discipline. The work is needed, you need to deliver, then you have to deliver it, nonetheless. But, when I'm working in a different time zone, I still try to schedule it, the work, as if I am working in my time zone. Say, I'm working in a U.S. time zone, their day starts later, my day starts earlier. Because a good company already have that structure that gives you the flexibility to do your work, you know what to do, and when to do, you know the clients that need help, you know what you're doing. So, I still wake up when everyone in my country is going to work and go to work as if I'm going to work.
So, by the end of the day, when they are waking up, the deliverables are ready to be delivered. So, I don't have to walk through the night and all of those things. But, some people also like to like, "Okay, let me walk when the U.S. people are working," so they'll work through the night and rest in the day. So, you just have to understand yourself and strike that balance because it is very easy to work all through the day. It is very easy to wake up in the morning, start working. Then your manager wakes up in the evening and tell you, "Okay, we need to complete this task. And this, we need to tweak this." And then, you see yourself working all through to your midnights. And, before you know it, your mental health and your physical health, it's shattered.
Isaline: So, how it is, in that case, you would remind your manager that you're in a different time zone? And, that's the thing, we'll be ready when they wake up. Because you'll be on it earlier?
Ebere: Oh, no. So, for the companies I've worked with, aside from the WhatsApp company. For the company I work with, there's flexibility. There's lots of flexibility. They don't expect me to deliver it when I wake up. They know my time zone is different. They have built that flexibility to allow me to complete my work, deliver it. And then, when they wake up, they continue from there. And, if they're going to have a meeting, they try to understand my time to their time. And then, we strike a balance in the meeting. So, we are not having meetings at midnight. So, you don't necessarily need to tell your manager, "Oh, I'll deliver it the next day," which is my own today and all of this. Oh, no.
Isaline: For someone who is searching a job and remotely like you do, and who has to maybe talk to a company who thinks, "Oh, no. It's too far. It's too complicated," what kind of arguments, how would you explain the benefits? Like, "No, it's going to be okay." But, how do you explain that it's different but it will be okay?
Ebere: I will say for companies that already feel your time zone and my time zone don't match, and because of that, you shouldn't work, I don't think that kind of company will even want to take their time to arrange for remote work, inclusion, and all of those things. So, if they feel the time zone doesn't, I don't need to pressure them. So, no, it doesn't matter.
But, I've had a case when I was doing an interview and they feel like, "Oh, everything is okay, but your time zone is the issue." I was like, "I work for people in your time zone and there is no issue. I just need to make sure I deliver and I deliver." But I said, "No, I want to wake up and be able to call you when I wake up at my time, and that time is your midnight." I am not ready to wake up at midnight, so I didn't take the job. But, if someone else is ready to wake up at midnight, and you don't care what time, that's totally fine. But, I don't think trying to convince a company who is not interested in making arrangements to accommodate people in different time zones is worth it.
Isaline: Do you have specific advice for a company, like examples again of dos and don'ts, and things companies can do to make everyone feel connected beyond the kilometers?
Ebere: Yeah. Aside the communications that should start from the very first time and continue and continue forever, there should also be a plan for socials. As I said, you get cookies for your onsite workers, but we don't get cookies. You can go for coffee breaks with your onsite workers, but we don't. So, there are a lot of disadvantages for people working remotely. So, you have to take your time to create, make arrangements for these social connections outside work. Some people, they open Slack channels and make people chat over there. But, some people also take it a step further to engage their team. They kind of have some virtual team building. Like play games, play virtual games, cook, and some stuff like that, just to make sure that their team feels connected.
Because one thing is that when your team feels connected, they work better. Imagine you have someone in the dev team and he doesn't like to implement your recommendations. But, somehow you guys just went out to play basketball and stuff, and you chatted, and felt like, "Oh, I know you better now." Then, the next time you'd be like, "Hi, Isaline. Please, I need a little help on my recommendations to get implemented." "Oh, yeah, yeah." It's a friendly smile. But, when there is no, everybody feels so disengaged and kind of far apart, it is very difficult to make them collaborate and work together. So, it is very important to create a room for social engagement, even when they are working remotely.
So, some tips apart from the Slack channel, which is very cool. I like it. I love it. I love to see the kids' face, the pet face, the travel vacation pictures. I love all of those things. They can also create time, maybe monthly for meetups to chat, talk about different places. Remote work gives us the opportunity to meet diverse humans from different places. So, you can utilize that to learn about different places, their food, their culture, their way of dressing. You can play games, play around, make it fun.
Isaline: For you as a consultant now, do you have remote clients? How do you go about finding them or connecting with them? What tools do you use?
Ebere: Network, Slack channels, LinkedIn, Twitter, referrals. So, one of my clients was referred to me from the Women in Tech SEO members. Just like, "Yeah, I know you're very -- she's cool. You can work with her." While some people, they reach out to you on Twitter, on LinkedIn. But, I feel joining communities is very helpful, especially when you're working remotely. So, it makes people know you beyond what you're posting on LinkedIn and all. So, joining communities like the Women in Tech SEO, I recommend it.
Isaline: Do you have any last advice for someone who's working remotely or companies, like a must thing to know that we haven't touched yet?
Ebere: Yeah. Apart from the discipline, which we kind of touched a little Because working remotely, you have to be very disciplined. Nobody is there to know if you got to work on time, if you left on time, or if you left late. No one is watching your back. It's just like living in a very beautiful, big apartment all by yourself. So, no one knows if you cleaned the house or not. No one knows. It's just you. So, you have to develop discipline.
One thing I do is I try to wake up and prepare as if I'm going to commute to work, even when I'm not commuting to work. Then, I make a dedicated place for working, because there could be a lot of distractions easily. Sometimes, if you're staying with, maybe your parents, they might feel like, "Oh, you're at home. You didn't go to work. So, you can help me with this, you can help me with that. After all, you're at home." So, you have to also make them understand, people around you, that you're working. If you have a dedicated place of work, you wake up, you prepare, you take your laptop there, and sit there until you're done, it's easy to get the work done that way. Some people can go to a co-working place or somewhere outside the house just to make sure that the work is done. So, discipline is very important.
I think as a remote worker, you should tilt your horn more often. You should make noise about your achievements in the company more often because no one is seeing you. No one is seeing that you've been on your laptop all day. It's easy to assume that you're not doing anything. And, if you don't make noise like, "Yeah, I was able to complete this. The client was happy," and this happened and that happened, they wouldn't know. I learned this the hard way. I advise anyone if you're working remotely, please make plans to talk about what you are doing. Don't be shy. Don't be scared. Talk about what you are doing. If you have a Slack channel or if you're in a meeting, talk. Mention what you did.
Isaline: I hear you. So it's about amplifying your own achievements. Not only externally but really internally towards your colleague. Because it's sure like they are deep in their own work. And, of course, they don't see you if you don't make some noise.
Ebere: Yeah, exactly.
Isaline: That's a really good point also about the discipline. Do you have one last advice for anyone who's working remotely and struggling with working from home?
Ebere: Yeah, like struggling with the discipline part. Maybe you can have, if you can't go to the co-working place, maybe like a working buddy or something. Some people, they try to work with their cameras on. I see people, even in Women in Tech SEO, there's a time, I think I've forgotten what we do then, that people work with their cameras on, everyone is seen. And then, you keep working, you are looking up to see others working, and it can motivate you to work. So, maybe it's something someone can try. Because I really don't have a problem with working remotely. If I know I need to deliver a task, I try to deliver the task. But, if you have an issue with discipline, try to go to a co-working place or have a work buddy, that both of you can work together.
Isaline: That's great. Thank you for all of your advice and for sharing your experience with us today. Well, this was our episode of WTSPodcast. We are from the Women in Tech SEO community, as you mentioned. Very importantly, if anyone listens, you don't have to be a tech SEO to join. You can be a copywriter; you can do outreach. So, if you are interested in SEO, there is no minimal level of experience required to join our community. So, do join us. We are cool. We are really nice and we help each other.
Thank you so much, Ebere, for being with me today. It was lovely to meet you and see you.
Ebere: Thank you so much, Isaline. It was so nice to finally see your face. Though virtually but it's nice to see your face.
Isaline: If you want to reach out to us, of course, Ebere Jonathan is on social media. So, ask away any questions. And, WTS community, we are on social media, so reach out and check our website. Thank you, everyone. I'm looking forward to the next podcast. Thanks a lot.
Ebere: Thank you.